The Ohio Ethics Law and Public Libraries Recorded Webinar Transcript

[00:05] Hi everyone. My name is Susan Willeke and I work for the Ohio Ethics Commission. I'm thrilled that you're joining me for this recorded webinar about the Ohio Ethics Law as it pertains to public libraries. First off, I just want to start by saying, thank you so much for all that you all do, whether you are working one on one with customers and clients and patrons of the library, or if you're behind the scenes doing things like making executive decisions and paying bills, etc.. I just want to thank you so much for all that you do to make public libraries such a blessing for so many people in the state of Ohio. So I'm especially honored to be able to do this. I do travel the state of Ohio doing speeches on the Ohio Ethics Law. It would be my honor to come speak at a staff development day, but I recognize there's lots of libraries in Ohio, and it may not be possible for me to reach all of them. So I thought this would be a helpful tool for your toolkit for people to learn more about the Ohio Ethics Law, especially, as I said, as it pertains to people who do, in fact, serve public libraries.

[01:03] So let's kind of jump in. This will be a little bit under an hour long. I hope you'll find it even more interesting than you might have thought the Ethics Law could be. Before we jump into what is actually in the Ethics Law itself, I thought it would behoove us to spend a minute or two just about, frankly, the “Why?” of the Ohio Ethics Law. Of, “Why does this statute exist? Why is it so important?” And here's why I would say. I understand why people are very interested in the great big investigations and the scandals that happen. I appreciate that. I'm also a consumer of news and media, etc.. I understand those things are interesting, but I would say that the Ethics Law isn't just about those things. Now, I will note, this is in fact a criminal statute in the state of Ohio. This is not a policy. This is not, sort of, someone's opinion or a practice. This is, in fact, a criminal law in the state of Ohio. So as a result, yes, it behooves us, you, me, all of us in public service to be in compliance with the Ethics Law so that we don't one day get into trouble under the Ethics Law. But the truth is, I think that the “Why?” of the Ethics Law is a little more foundational than that.

[02:12] For one minute, forget where you work. It doesn't even matter at this moment why you are subject to the Ethics Law. I want you to think for a minute like a citizen, like a taxpayer. I would argue that you have the right, as a citizen, as a taxpayer, to expect that governments operate in a certain way. Yes, public libraries, but frankly, every other public entity out there as well. Think about all the governments that serve you based on where you live, right? Your state government, whatever county you live in, the city, the township, the village that you call home, and all the little governmental entities in there. Yes, the public library, but also the public school system, that community college, that university, that police, that fire department, your township hall, your village hall, city council and so on and so forth. You have the right as a citizen and as a taxpayer to know that every single one, every single time one of those public entities or personnel, they make a decision, they move forward on a project, they issue that permit, they, they grant that money, they retain a consultant, hire a new employee, whatever. You have the right to know that that process, that decision making was based on what served the public well. You have the right to not have to wonder, “Did our three township trustees vote that way because it's what was best for the township or because it financially benefited their own businesses?” Right? You have that right as a citizen and as a taxpayer.

[03:29] Let's even say some time this week you go grab a bite to eat at lunch during the work week or you take your family out for dinner one night on the weekend. You have the right to know, for example, that, let's say the Health Department employee who inspected that restaurant this past year, you have the right to know that inspector was not also one of the owners of that facility. The Ethics Law reaches our lives in ways that we don't even think about government entering into our lives. But you have the right to know, even when government is working behind the scenes, like you dropped your child off that daycare center, or you do, in fact, you know, go to that restaurant. You have the right to know that the public decisions and actions behind those moments were not done in a way that gave an unfair advantage or favor to someone's family, their friends, their outside business associates. You have the right to know that government work is not compromised based on someone's benefit, gain, etc..

[04:17] So if that's the “Why?” of the Ethics Law, I just want to stay for a minute here on the “Who?” of the Ethics Commission. I do work for the Ohio Ethics Commission and we do have several statutory responsibilities, as you can see on this slide. Again, we referenced the investigation one, that is the one that a lot of people are very interested in. But, you know, I always like to say, as wonderful as our investigators are, right? They are wicked smart, they're professional. They do their jobs marvelously well. Chances are you don't want to spend too much time with investigators in your career. Like me, I would much prefer to kind of hang out in the advisory/education section. I am the manager of the education, the outreach/communications section of the Ethics Commission. I do live classes. I do webinars like this one, both live and recorded. We do e-courses, I have factsheets, I do newsletters. The idea of our part of our job is to take the advisory stuff, that first bullet point that you see on this screen, the legal advice that our attorneys give, and turn it into language that's very palatable, very applicable, that anybody in public service can look at our website, they can give us a call, they can come to one of our speeches and say, “Oh, I see how the Ethics Law applies in my circumstances, in my public role.”

[05:27] Now, in this in this class today, of course I’m going to focus on public libraries. But keep in mind, we have information, for example, on our website that deals with all kinds of people in public service. All those that I mentioned, people that are hired, elected, appointed, full-time, part-time, management, not management, union, non-union - none of that matters to some degree because we're all subject to the Ethics Law. Your board members and the person who works part-time at the library answering telephones are equally subject to the Ohio Ethics Law. So I hope you're going to find the information about the statute itself really, really helpful today. And I do hope that you will always feel comfortable coming to the Ethics Commission if you do need more advice, if you need some guidance. I will give you, at the end of this course, contact information, how to reach us. But if you Google us, the Ohio Ethics Commission, you can find our phone number. You can talk to one of our advisory attorneys so that if you're in a situation where you're not talking to an investigator going, “Was that okay, what already happened?” But you're in a more advantageous position of saying, “Hey, advisory attorney at the Ethics Commission, what would be okay if: this person acted on this, I'm in this situation, what should I do?” You're going to be in a much better position. I know in my lifetime I'd prefer to spend more time in the advice and education world than in the investigation one. And we certainly welcome that for all of you as well. Okay.

[06:47] So we talk about the “Why,” we talked about the “Who,” here’s the “What” of the Ohio Ethics Law. These, I will tell you, are the areas of the Ethics Law where honestly we kind of get the most mileage, if that makes sense. Right? These are not the whole of the Ethics Law. There are other parts of the statute that I won't cover in this webinar, but I want to try to hit the areas that could occur the most often in the world of public libraries. Questions that we've answered, issues that have arisen. And when I say issues that have arisen, I don't necessarily always mean that there was something that went awry, that someone was investigated. Very often when I say issues arose, what I'm saying is people had legitimate questions and they got the information and the advice that they needed so they could stay on the straight and narrow. So what I kind of like to do in this webinar is sort of hit these bullet points one at a time. We're going to go through them like, like a table of contents - you know I have to make as many book and library references as I can today. We will go through them, I will give you kind of a general overview, but I'm going to try to apply those areas of the law directly as they have come up in the past for public libraries and as they could potentially come up in the future.

[07:56] So we're going to start with that first one. Conflicts of Interest. I will tell you, I've often thought to myself this phrase, I think, gets a bad rap. You know what I mean? I often think that people assume a conflict of interest must somehow inherently be illegal. Like, don't you always feel like, this slide, when I put it up, I kind of feel like it should be accompanied by an organ, you know, sort of like this: Conflicts of Interest * DUN DUN DAAA * Because I think it has an ominous overtone. “Oh, no, she has a conflict of interest.” Here's the thing. Conflicts of interest arise all the time in government. State, county, city, township, public libraries - conflicts arise all the time because people in government are still people, right? We all have outside lives. You see, just these are here on this screen, right? That we all have our own financial interests. And you and I, in addition, our public role, we might own property. We have investments. Maybe you, in your part-time life, you have an outside job, you have business associates because you work part time there.Maybe, if you're a board member, you own your own business or you work full-time here. Maybe some of you in addition to your role at the library, you have business associates in that you serve on the board of this nonprofit that you have fiduciary responsibility to. You have family members right there that, yes, might be patrons at the library, but more importantly, maybe they have businesses of their own. They may someday try to do business with the library, etc.. We all have these outside lives that enrich our lives and give us joy. They are also the issues that could present us with conflicts of interest. But here's the message.

[09:35] Hear me out on this. It is not illegal, in the state of Ohio, for someone who serves in the government arena to have a conflict of interest. What would be illegal is if someone were to act on that conflict of interest. Remember when I mentioned the Board of Health person who might inspect the restaurant? If I work for your county health department and my sister owns a restaurant in the county and I normally inspect restaurants, is that a conflict for me? Sure. But is it any reason for me to panic? No! As long as I don't conduct the inspection of my sister's restaurant, as long as I am able to stay completely away from it, to recuse myself, to abstain, withdraw - whatever word that you want to use, that if in fact a conflict of interest should arise in your years of public service in whatever capacity you serve your library. My message here is not to panic. My message is to say, “Let's stop, slow down, get some more information before we move forward. Maybe call the Ethics Commission.” If you all have legal counsel at your library, by all means, feel comfortable calling them. But I always want to open that door that the Ethics Commission is here to assist you, to help you, to answer questions, to kind of lead you on the straight and narrow. So we will talk about a few of the areas that conflicts of interest can arise. And one of the ones that we have answered questions before, from people in the public library world, is this one, right? “Hey, in addition to just working at this library, I also work there.” Or, “I have a business in my own private life.” Or, “I do consulting on the side.” As I mentioned, maybe I'm a library board member and then that's not my job at all. I actually work here. Or I own this business. That's not an abnormal question.

[11:19] As a result, we have Advisory Opinions dating way back that help address some of these issues. As you can see, like, if you glance at those, just two of the many Advisory Opinions I could have included, The first two numbers always indicate the year it was issued, so 1996 and 1989 respectively.These opinions have stood the test of time. They are wonderful tutorials, if you will. I know you're not supposed to use the phrase Cliff Notes or Spark Notes when you're talking to libraries or to school districts. But you know what I mean? Kind of that succinct summary of: here's how the Ethics Law will apply if someone at your library, in addition to their library service, does have this outside job, etc.. So I came up with just a few examples of things that we have addressed in the past. This one came up at a speech that I gave and I thought it was really an interesting one, that this person had TWO public jobs, right? There are issues sometimes, what we call compatibility of public positions, but this was one their full time job was in fact working for the city building department. But they also had a part time job working for the public library. And the issue here was, “Hey, as a city building inspector, I would normally go out to make sure this construction project is going well, this addition, etc.. And is it okay if I conduct the inspection on the,” right, “the addition, the construction project going on at the library where I also serve?” Now that is a perfectly innocent question. If someone were saying, “Hey, would I be able to do that inspection?” The problem, this one, was, apparently it was, ”Hey, was it okay that I already conducted it?” That's an unfortunate situation for us to be in as the Ethics Commission, because we're not going to give advice on something that already happened. That's now an investigation.So this would be a marvelous one for someone to ask up-front, before they conduct the inspection.

[13:09] All right. This is one, I will tell you, we've always had to some degree an issue of people using public time, public equipment, public authority to somehow advertise for their own business or those of loved ones, etc.. I don't think this example was one of complete nefarious intent. Right? I always like to say, not everybody who's ever had an issue under the conflict of interest statute had arisen from their beds that morning, doing, I like to call it, the proverbial, you know, villain hand swipe. Do you know what the villain hand swipe is? Like this, right? * Muah ah ah!* How could I abuse public position for personal gain today? It doesn't always happen that way. This may be a situation of somebody, frankly, working from home during COVID, during the lockdown of 2020 and part of 21, where people’s worlds began to meld. And pretty soon, you know, I'm using my public computer, my public you know, I've got I've got a state cell phone, I've got equipment like this, even my little microphone. I think it looks like a, like a spaceship. Right? What if I'm using this public equipment, my public time that I just real quick switch to Gmail and I just do a few emails from my state laptop about my underwater basket weaving business. Right?

[14:27] These are some of the concerns that have arisen over the years. I think we saw a little of an increase during the beginning of the COVID years when people were working from home, many of us, for the first time. I would just say this - if in fact, in addition to your local library, if you do have an outside job, an outside gig, outside consulting, you work part-time, we are not saying that's automatically prohibited. What I'm saying is keep those two worlds separate. Do not use your public position at the library to advance your outside business, to do something at your library that enhances their opportunities for this and that. Keep those worlds really, really separate.

[15:03] Okay, here's my last example for now. Right? This is one that we get lots of questions about. This whole issue of job hunting. I never want to leave anybody with the impression that once you've checked into public service, you're never checking out again. Right? That that's really not the message I want to give. Public service is not the Hotel California. And incidentally, if there's anybody out there, watch this webinar who does not know what I mean when I reference the Hotel California, look that up later today. Your life will be better if you know the Eagles greatest hits. Right? But my point is this - we're not saying job hunting is illegal, but I hope you could see the potential conflict. If I work for your library and I am in fact a library personnel member. Right? Who is the contact for X, Y, Z. This IT company who's helping us with a huge overhaul of our whole system kind of thing. And I'm their contact and all of a sudden I am simultaneously serving as the contact and answering questions and holding this contractor's feet to the fire to make sure they deliver the product that we're paying for. While I am simultaneously negotiating a salary of a new job with them.

[16:17] I hope you would get angst, both as a person of public service and frankly, as a taxpayer.That those two things are not compatible. I could not be in a situation where I'm using my public position to somehow secure that thing of value like a new job. If this is ever an issue for any of you, What we've talked about so far, if you ever do wanna job hunt from a vendor that the library has used, we, again, have so much on our website. I have a fact sheet just about job hunting and what you should do and what you should know and how to stay, again, as I said, on the straight and narrow. I know those are just few examples, but let me give you some Q&A of actual questions that the Ethics Commission has addressed over the years. Now, in a live webinar, you would have a chance for like to actually do polling and answer questions.This is recorded, so don't worry if you're like freaking out right now going, I didn't know I had to to answer questions. How do I get credit? This is all recorded. This is not happening live by the time you're watching this. So this is just for your edification and to kind of clarify some of the concepts that we have. So just sit back, relax, wait for both the question and the answer to come next.

[17:19] All right. So here's our first one. So, I work for your library. Let's pretend. And, in addition, I purchased this cool, old historic home in the community, and I've turned it into a used bookstore. And now I'm wondering, “Would I be allowed to contract? Would I be allowed to purchase items from the very booksellers that we use at the library?” Now, if we were all in a live room together, I'd be making you go “Yes,” “No,” “Maybe.” The truth is it would not be illegal. That's an okay thing for them to contract with the same vendor. The issue would be, “No, no, I cannot accept any major discounts just because I also happen to work at the library, which is an even bigger customer.” I could not obtain any special advantage, benefit because of the library contract with that vendor. You see what I mean? I cannot use the authority of my public position to secure a thing of value, in this example, maybe a major discount for myself, for members of my family, or for people that I have a business relationship with in my private outside life.

[18:20] Okay, let's look at the next one. All right. So, same person. I'm still working for your library and I still own my bookstore in the big ol’ Victorian home. And now I'm wondering, “Hey, as long as I let my boss know at the library, I can advertise, can't I, in the local library, where I work, about my business? Now, I will tell you this. We have heard, over the years, of libraries who still may have, kind of that, good old fashioned, sort of, bulletin board, like outside in the narthex. The library that I frequent the most frequently, it's kind of outside the library, it’s sort of the entryway, that there's this bulletin board that people can just sort of use thumbtacks and pin up, you know, if they have a business or advertisement or their business card. Now, in fairness, we've never said in our Advisory Opinions that you wouldn't be able to put your bookstore or library, you know, flier up on the board where anybody else can. But what we had told this person who asked this question, “No, you can't advertise with bookmarks. Or you can't mention, or you can't put fliers in books and all these other things. We can't use our public position to advance our private businesses.

[19:22] Okay, what about this one? So let's say that I'm a library board member and I happen to own a furniture store and I say, “We've not sold these tables and chairs. I'd be happy to donate those to the library.” Do you think that's okay? The answer is that you, it might surprise some of you, the Ethics Commission actually said, “Yes, that actually is possible.” But in that case, that person making the donation, in my example here, is the board member, still cannot realize any personal benefit. I'm not using that as a tax write off. I am not advertising, “Hey, look what a great guy I am that I donated all this stuff to the library. Please come shop at my furniture store.” Right? I still cannot realize a benefit. But of course, donations to the public library are not automatically prohibited. You guys may very well have Friends of the Library, etc. Donations are not automatically prohibited. So yes. Could that person make the donation? Sure. Can they then, you know? Right? Benefit from it? That's where we would say, “No can do.”

[20:19] All right. I have another one here, everybody. Okay, so let's say that your library has this five year contract to purchase, you know, all the stuff, the hardware, the software, and part of their sort of, that vendor’s gig, if you will, is they say, “Hey, you know, your library employees are allowed to buy,” I don't know, like, “Microsoft Office for their personal computers for,” you know, “10, 15 bucks.” And you're wondering, “Are we allowed to do that?” Well, the truth is, that is possible with some exceptions, here, right? The caveats are this. It has to be a deal, if you will, they give to all of their clients. This is not something they invented for working with government people. They do this for all of their clients. It's still relatively modest. It's open to every single employee, not the people that negotiated it. Right? Not just that department, but every library employee. And here's the big one. The person or people who negotiated that deal are the ones that can't take advantage. It's just a way to keep that process above board, transparent, and one that the public really can trust.

[21:21] Okay, how about this one everybody? So, we talked about this one a little bit already. So I've got a library fiscal officer wondering, “Can I accept the job?” Well, I will tell you, this is one where I'm wimping out a little bit, everybody, because I'm going to put a “Maybe” here. But here's why I'm putting “Maybe.” If, in fact, you are the lone, sole fiscal person who makes those decisions. Well, then, “No,” because chances are there was absolutely no way for you to recuse yourself during that negotiating process and during the whole overseeing of the IT stuff. If, in fact, you work for one of Ohio's largest public libraries and you could say, “Yeah, actually I wasn't involved at all. That was a different group of fiscal officers.” Okay, if that kind of a recusal was possible, then “Yes,” maybe that is possible. I don't want you to think here that our answers are capricious, right? That we answer the question based on what way the wind is blowing that day. Not at all. But, what I would say that we do, is that we look at each situation, each circumstance, individually, when we're giving advice. So what might work for this group? Maybe not so much for the next person, because the facts and the circumstances were a little bit different.

[22:30] So having said that, always feel free to call us, to reach out to us. Now, obviously, we can't do live questions now because this is a recording, but you are welcome to reach out to us with the contact information I will give you at the end of this webinar. All right, great job. You can probably already tell that even, of all the things we covered in the conflict world, we could cover an hour's worth more just in the conflict world. So, take a look at our, take a look at our website, there's so much out there, and find out what you're looking for. You're going to find it's really going to help out. If you can't find what you’re looking for, just give us a call. We'd be happy to help you.

[23:03] All right. So we are going to move on to the next area of the Ethics Law. This is the Gift part of the statute. Now, I will tell you right off the bat, one of the things that 102.03(E) and (F) do not give us is some specific dollar amount. There is nothing in the statute that says, “Hey, library employees or library officials, here's the magic dollar amount. As long as this gift is worth less than this, you're golden. If it's over that, that's illegal.” We don't have that dollar amount in the state of Ohio. What the statute actually says to us is this: “Is this meal, this ticket to this Broadway show, this box of chocolates, this tin of cookies, this golf outing, this, whatever it is, is it substantial and is it improper?” This is a two part equation, both halves of this weigh equally in deciding whether or not we're allowed to accept a gift in our years of public service.

[24:00] So let's just break down these words briefly here. I’d like to start with the second word first, “Improper,” if that’s okay. All that word “Improper” means is, “Where’d the gift come from?” Right? Who's the source? Who wants to pick up my tab at lunch? Who sent the, you know, the tin of popcorn to our library at the holidays? Who is saying, “You can have this ticket to this Broadway show coming through town?” Who is the source of this thing of value? You can see on this slide, there's only a few categories that make someone an improper source in the eyes of the Ohio Ethics Law. Vendors. Right? The companies that are already selling goods and services to your office. Wannabe vendors, those that are trying to, right? They're submitting bids, they're advertising, they're calling your public purchaser, saying, “Hey, how can we get our widgets in your hands as well?” Right? So vendors or wannabe vendors. Anybody directly regulated by a public entity. I'm probably not going to worry about that one too much for all of you. For the libraries, I would say vendors, potential vendors. And look at that last category. People who have a vested interest in matters before the library. Maybe this could be the Friends of the Library, maybe a nonprofit that you guys work with. Maybe it's adjacent property owners. My guess would be, in your line of work, the most common are going to be those vendors and those potential vendors. So please let me be clear here. I am not suggesting that the companies that you all buy things from for your library, whether it's goods like library books or chairs, people could sit on, or services like having the carpets steam cleaned or, you know, IT services. We’re not suggesting that all of your vendors or potential vendors are improper people. I do not mean to imply that they must have improper motives, not at all.

[25:45] But what we are saying is that those folks would be improper sources of gifts that we're going to call substantial. The other half of this two part equation. Now, I will tell you this, when we're talking about substantial, I think we can all pretty much figure out we're saying, “Okay, if ‘improper’ is where the gift is from, ‘substantial’ is: ‘What is it?’ and ‘Is it substantial?’” There are lots of things, even under the Ohio Ethics Law, that we acknowledge would be no big deal, would be pretty inexpensive.You can see that we use the word “nominal” and the Latin phrase “de minimis” a lot in our writings. Look at just some of these examples here. You know, these kind of trinkety, the stuff that has their website, their logo on it, right? The pens and pencils or the little koozies that keep your can of soda cold or little hand sanitizer bottles, etc., and all the things that you see here. These are not the kinds of things that would in fact trigger a full blown criminal investigation. What it would do, though, is say, “All right, while these things are not automatically illegal,” which is true, “I wouldn't want them all to add up to a lot of things.” Like, I wouldn't want to take the free meal from that vendor every week for ten weeks.That's going to add up. But in general, these one time gift acceptance, not what we're talking about under the Ohio Ethics Law.

[27:11] So if those things are nominal, not substantial, then the next question is, “What are the substantial things?” What are the gifts that would be considered substantial and therefore illegal to accept from our vendors, the people that we contract with, the people that sell goods and services to the public library? Now, this is not an all in all encompassing, all inclusive list. This is just a handful of examples, right? That, you know, the tickets to games or Broadway shows or travel expenses and hotel costs and airfare and home construction and appliances and jewelry and fancy furniture. At the end of the day, people in public service should not be soliciting or accepting those kinds of substantial things of value from our improper sources. Again, a two way street. If you're missing one of these halves of the equation, it's not illegal. So, for example, if a vendor to your office does, in fact, stop by and they bring a little $10 box of assorted chocolates from the grocery store? Yes, technically it's from an improper source if it's from a vendor. But are we going to see that as a substantial thing of value? No. So we don't have a violation. The reverse here is true as well.

[28:27] Let's say that the gift is quite substantial. It's a ticket to a Broadway show that's traveling through Columbus, let's say. But the person offering me that gift, they're not a vendor. They’re not a potential vendor. This is, you know, my best friend who is an orthodontist in a whole nother part of Ohio. Right? They're not doing or seeking to do business or regulated by or have interest in matters before my public office. So, right, they might not be, they might not be regulated or doing business, but they may be, in fact, right, an interested party. Right? I can not accept those things that we talked about, some of these very expensive gifts from those vendors, etc.. I would say this; the Ethics Law can be nuanced. It can be a lot to, kind of, study. The Gift part is, to me, one of the sadder parts of the law that people get into trouble for, because I think it's one of the easiest parts to understand and obey. Right? “No, thank you. I'll pay my own way.” So this two part equation, just balance it in your mind. If in fact, I like I mentioned that best friend that's an orthodontist, if they're the ones, right, that have that ticket, if it’s substantial, but they're not doing business? Alright, that might be okay. It's when you have both halves in place that we might have those problems.

[29:47] Okay. You ready for a few more Q&A? Just a little quiz time, just for fun? All right. I hope this one's pretty obvious, right? I'll let you read this one. “Yeah, this ocean front condo in Cancun is worth about 500 bucks. Fair market value, right?” Yeah, that was an actual investigation that did result in a guilty conviction. No, we certainly cannot take those kind of things. “Even if,” here's the “Even if” I get a lot - “Well, even if it didn't influence me?” Keep in mind, this isn't the bribery statute. A bribe is much more obvious, Right? This for that? “Hey, you know, if I get this contract with the library, there's $10,000 in it for you.” Yeah, that's pretty obvious. This is not that part of the statute that says that the Ethics Commission would have to show a change in behavior, to show that some was influenced. We cannot accept those substantial things of value from improper sources, even if it wouldn't, couldn't, or didn't influence us. What about this one? So you've got this really good friend who's a representative of a company. Keep in mind that even friendship can't alter or overrule the Ethics Law.

[30:59] We should not, even if you became friends with that company rep, if you want to invite them to their wedding, your wedding, that's fine. But if they are in fact a company rep of that company doing business with the library, any gifts should be pretty modest in nature because 102.03(E) says we're not allowed to accept them, and 102.03(F) says the vendor's not allowed to promise, offer or give them. I had to use this picture because I was so taken with it. Right? What about something like this? Right? The holidays that patrons, or vendors, they want to bring those sort of little modest, you know, the tins of popcorn or cookies? In general, those kind of modest gifts are not what we're talking about when we say something is substantial in the eyes of the Ethics Law. Now, having said that, if your library ever has a gift policy that's even more stringent, right? Like even if your, if your library ever says, “Hey, we know it might not be illegal to take the box of cookies, but tell you what, we're going to decline them or we're going to put them out for the patrons to enjoy, or we're going to donate them to a food bank.” You're allowed to have policies that are even stricter than the Ohio Ethics Law.

[32:05] Alright, here's a conference question. Right? What about this one? So you're a library board member. They're going to this conference in Pittsburgh. There's this corporation that says, “Hey, you know, why don’t you come with us? We're going to take a van of us, get a behind-the-scenes tour, maybe grab some dinner.” And, “Hey, it'll be fine. You're allowed to take it because it's part of the conference.” Oh, no. Oh, no, no, no, no. Right? The only way that would be part of the conference is if every single person at that conference is invited to this event. It's on site and it's still relatively modest in nature. None of those things met that criteria that we just said, of that example. You're not going off-site with a small select group of people. No, absolutely not, because that would be accepting something substantial, right, from someone trying to get your contract. That makes them an improper source in the eyes of the Ethics Law. Absolutely not.

[32:54] Okay. How about this one? So I am now your library, maybe your fiscal person, maybe a manager. And i'm wondering, “Hey, we want to make sure we get the best IT product available, so they want to fly me to LA to see that product in use.” “No.” That would still be accepting something substantial from an improper source, Someone trying to get our contract. Okay, what about this, going back to the conference again. What about the flat screen TV that's raffled off and every single person attending the conference is registered in the conference, just by virtue of the fact that they're attending the conference. And they call your name. Are you allowed to take it home with you?

[33:33] Now, here's what I will tell you. I gave you once more the “Maybe” answer but let me back up real quickly here to say this: if we are literal and saying, “Can I take it home, like to my house where I live?” The answer is “No.” I am not allowed to personally benefit from that. But if by home we mean, “Well I’m going to take it back to the library, and we can replace the old, icky, you know, whiteboard, that's been broken in the staff room or in the conference room or in the front hall.” Right? “And we're going to put this up as a way to do announcements, etc., that the public benefits.” That is a different scenario. So while I don't mean to go “Bad/No”s on everything, I will tell you again, we want to be able to answer your questions on this and all areas of the Ethics Law. Oh my goodness, we could spend the whole hour just on gifts, couldn’t we? It is a really interesting part of the Ethics Law, one that people do have lots of questions about.

[34:23] So I encourage you to read through our website and give us a call with any questions you may have. I will tell you, you will find, on all these areas of law that we're talking about, you will find more subset factsheets like - yes, do we have overall gift factsheets? Yes. But I also have subsets, everything from: here's a fact sheet about discounts, here's a factually about donations, here's a factsheet about buying that ticket. Here's a fact sheet about, you know, “Is this allowed, is that allowed?” We have very specific guidance out there to help people in public service be able to feel confident that they are, in fact, doing the right thing.

[34:54] All right. Good discussion on Gifts everybody! I am going to move on now to Public Contracts. So a public contract - you know what a public contract is? Frankly, it’s really simple. It's any time public money is spent. So if your library, if they are purchasing new books or they are installing a whole new HVAC system, which might be a little more expensive than a few books. It doesn't matter the amount, it doesn't matter, you know, if it was a once in a while, if it was “as needed,” if it was put out for bid.

[35:24] It doesn't matter. Public money being spent is a public contract. That's totally normal. It happens every day of the year, doesn’t it? “Hey, our library just bought a chair.” “Our library just retained the contract with the, you know, the window washer.” kind of thing. Totally normal. But because we're talking about public money, you kind of have to figure there's going to be some restrictions. This part of the law specifically notes that you and I cannot use our public positions to try to get public contracts for ourselves, for members of our family, or people that we have a business relationship with in our private, outside life.

[36:00] So, let's say that your library, where you serve, they have made the decision to bring in a professional window washing company. You now, really do a good spit, clean and polish for the summertime here of the library, and they're going to wash the windows inside and out, and any screens that may exist, and any, you know, rims and windowsills, etc.. And you think to yourself, “Well that's pretty good, because, you know why? My sister owns a window washing company. I think she should throw her hat in the ring and be considered by the library for this public contract.” So here's my first question to you. Knowing that your sister is wanting this contract, and your sister is not a public employee, but you are, you either work full-time or part-time at the library, and you're thinking to yourself, “Is my sister even allowed to go after that contract?” Well, you know, the answer is, “Yeah, your sister's allowed to PURSUE it.” That's not the prohibition.

[36:52] The prohibition is on you and on me. As public employees and public officials. We can't somehow make it happen. That recusal must be complete. Not only am I not signing off on it or voting on it, if I'm a board member, I'm also not recommending behind the scenes. I am not advocating. I'm not making it possible for my loved one to get that contract. I cannot use the authority of my public position to get a public contract for myself, a member my family, or someone that I have a business relationship with in my private outside life. Now, I will tell you there is some confusion sometimes over this part of the Ethics Law.

[37:30] Recusal, as I’ve said repeatedly, right, is mandatory. It is absolutely essential and it does keep us safe under the Ethics Law. Here's the thing, though. I will tell you, there is a part of what you're seeing right now, on this screen, where recusal doesn't solve the whole problem. When it comes to family and outside business associates, recuse yourself all the way, right? That's mandatory. “Hey, brother, I can't be involved in this discussion and decision making because if you're going after the contract, I have to stay completely out of it.” Or, this company that I work for part time, “Hey, boss that owns that company, you’re on your own going after it. I am recusing myself from both sides of that negotiating situation.” Here's what I will tell you.

[38:12] Now, look at that first bullet point - Self. There is a time, in public service there are times when that whole “recusal” doesn't necessarily solve the whole problem. There is a very specific prohibition under this part of the law called Sales to Public Agencies. I have two fact sheets on this part of the Ethics Law. One is a fact sheet for those of us in state government, because the statute even a little more stringent for us and one for local governments, as the public library is, in fact, considered. That's a great fact sheet to help you understand the very specific prohibition of this part of Ethics Law.

[38:46] Which, in a nutshell, says this, “I cannot be a vendor to the very public entity that I serve.” This is one of our two most commonly part, commonly violated parts of the Ohio Ethics Law that people think, “This is no big deal.” I'll hear at a speech someone say, “Well Susan, you just said that my brother, right, can get that contract as long as I recuse myself.” And that is an accurate statement. The inaccurate leap is that people then say “Well, then I too should be able to submit my bid to the county or to the town, to the village, to the library, I'm not the one carrying out the deal. I'm just the one who would have that contract.” No! We cannot sell goods and services to our own public entitiy.

[39:29] So just, look for those opportunities that would say, “Woah, this would be something that even if I did recuse, it wouldn't matter. That doesn't solve the problem. I am not allowed to have the very public entity I serve - the city, this county, this township, whatever - I am not allowed to have them, as a vendor in my private outside life.” All right. Are you all ready for I think this might be our last our last set of Q&A for this part of the Ethics Law. We’ll do a few on public contracts just to see how everybody's doing. How about this one everybody? So here you’ve got a library director saying, “I am going to sign off on this window washing contract. My brother owns the company. And here's here's my defense: I completely recused myself. I took no action. Not only did I not vote on it, I didn't even have any back hallway conversations. I didn't advocate behind the scenes, lobby, does that help?” And the answer is, *wrong buzzer* It doesn't matter. I am not allowed to participate in anything that would help secure that contract for myself, for members of my family or people that I have a business relationship with in my private outside life.

[40:36] All right. So now I'm wondering, “I work for this library. Can I sell logoed t-shirts to the library? And they're going to give them out to library staff.” You know, maybe, maybe every spring, now, that summer is pretty much here, right? Maybe every summer, the new employees who are going to be around all summer and spring, they receive a t-shirt or two, or embroidered polo shirt with the library name and logo. And I'm the employee wondering, “Hey, I have this t-shirt printing business...” Absolutely not. It does not matter if it's once in a while, it's on an as needed basis. If someone says, “Well, you know, the employee wasn't even all that into it.” No, I can not sell goods and services to the very public entity I serve. That is a no go, completely illegal in the eyes of the Ohio Ethics Law. This one’s kind of easy, right? So here we've got another brother and he's wondering, “I might get that contract, right? As long as my brother, the manager of library stays completely out of it, has nothing to do with it, I can get it, right?” And that is that is an accurate statement. We can not go near those public contracts. Okay.

[41:38] Now, real quickly, I have to ask you, one of the two most commonly violated parts of the Ohio Ethics Law is actually people who sell things to their own public entity. We talked about that, right? That, “Hey, I've got the contract to do the underwater basket weaving for my my company and I'll do it at home on my own time at my own business.” That's one of our two very common violations. The next one is, *dun dun dun DA* Some of you are saying it back in your homes. I can hear you already, right? Nepotism, right? If a member of your family wants to apply for a public job; that's wonderful. Wish them well and then stay out of it. Do not get involved in the discussion, the decision making, the hiring, the recommending, the signing off on or even the character reference. Do not get involved in any hiring process where your family members are involved - to their benefit or to their detriment. You must recuse.

[42:35] You can see the definition of family here on this slide. (Spouse/domestic partner, Sibling, Parent/step-parent, Child/step-child, Grandparent, Grandchild) Incidentally, it doesn't matter if your children or your grandchildren, etc. live in your home. They are still considered your family, and you would have to recuse from any action related to their public job hunt. The exception is extended relatives not listed on this slide like aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, cousins or in-laws. Any of those relatives are only considered family under the Ethics Law if that relative actually lives in your home. So if any of these family members we've discussed is looking for a public job at your library wish them well and stay far away.

[43:18] Now, I recognize I may be generating more questions than I'm answering. And since this isn't a live class I can't answer them for you in the moment, but you may certainly feel free to call us or email us if you have kind of a list of questions you've been keeping. We'd be happy to help. Okay. This is the very last area of the Ethics Law. You guys have been great so far. Post-Employment. This is the part of the law that people are going to want to know out, know about after they're heading out the door. Maybe you're retiring from the library. Maybe you're going to leave there and go work somewhere else, maybe in a different public entity, maybe in a private entity, right?

[43:50] It doesn't matter how you sever ties with public service. This is essentially, we call it the “one-year cooling-off period” that says in that first year, I am not going to represent - right, communicate on behalf of my new boss, my new colleague, my new client at my new outside job, etc. - I am not going to represent them before any public entity. Right? Whether I'm calling the old agency I left or a different public agency, I cannot call, reach out, on behalf of someone at my job to someone in public service for one year if we would be discussing, in that email, that hearing, that briefing, that meeting, whatever, if we would be discussing one of the projects that I had personally participated in when I was at the library. That's a lot to take in.

[44:34] Let me just give you the quick “why,” and it might make more sense. What we don't want to have happen is this. So Susan Willeke leaves the Ethics Commission on Friday, and on Monday she's at her new job at a consulting firm or whatever, and by the way, in that first week, Susan's reaching out to all of her old buddies at the Inspector General's office or at the Ethics Commission or another state agency. You know, kind of using her credentials to kind of get an advantage, a benefit, to kind of reach out on behalf of my new boss, etc.. That's what this part of the Ethics Law is about. If you want to know more about that cooling off period, we do have a marvelous fact sheet on our website about post-employment that goes a little more into detail that will be a great blessing to anybody who's thinking about moving on.

[45:14] Whether it's retirement, whether you're thinking about your next adventure in life, etc.. It can be a great blessing to understand what that fact sheet says. All right, everybody, as promised, I wanted to give you our final slide, our information, how to reach us after this. I've given you our website and our main phone number. That phone number can be used for anything. If you want to talk to an advisory attorney, that's fine. Call there and ask. You could speak, connect to an investigator. You can call me and ask about training. If you can't find what you’re looking for on the website, let us know.

[45:42] We just really want to be a blessing to you because you are all such a blessing to so many people. Many of you have probably heard me speak over the years at live conferences, please know I'm very sincere when I say public libraries are among my happy places on the planet. I love public libraries. Thank you so much for all that you do to make them possible for all of us who love to read and consider it one of our happy places in the world. I hope that you will join me in a future webinar, in a live class, etc. If we can answer some questions, please know that it'd be our great honor. But overall, thank you so much for all that you do for public service, and especially for those of us who love to read so much. Take care, everybody. Be well. I hope to see you all soon. Bye bye.