The Ohio Ethics Law and Public University and College Trustees Recorded Webinar Transcript

[00:05] Hello, my name is Susan Willeke. I am the Training and Communications Manager for the Ohio Ethics Commission. For those of you I have met before, it's nice to see you again, even if it's virtual. Thank you for joining me on this training. This recording, this recorded webinar has been created specifically with university and college board members, the Board of Trustees in mind. This is just a helpful overview of the Ethics Law, specifically as it pertains to all of you who do serve in that role. I hope you'll find it helpful, and I hope it will prompt future conversations and questions that you may reach out to the Ethics Commission about. So. Speaking of the Ethics Commission itself, you may be familiar with some of the statutory responsibilities that the Ethics Commission has. You're probably very familiar with the financial disclosure requirement. If you ever have questions, feel free to call our office. Our two financial disclosure experts are wonderful at what they do, but you will also find a great deal of information on our website. If you ever have questions about when to file and how to answer certain questions, there's so much out there that kind of can serve as a tutorial.

[01:14] You may also be familiar with our investigative team. They work very hard. They do their jobs very professionally. This is a criminal statute that we'll be talking about in this training so they do play an important function and we're very glad that we have them - but at the end of the day, I suspect that most of us would prefer not to spend too much time in the presence of criminal investigators. So that brings us to our first two bullet points. I am the Manager of the Communications/Education/Training section. In addition to classes like this, I do live speeches around the state. I do webinars and news releases and factsheets. We have all kinds of e-courses, webinars on our website. My goal is to make the Ethics Law very approachable, to put it in the vernacular, so that anybody in public service can get the information they need. Because the better educated we are about the Ethics Law, the more equipped we are to comply with it effectively. That first bullet point, I do want to do a shout out to our three incredible advisory attorneys.

[02:14] If the day comes in your years of public service that you think to yourself, “You know, I want to do the right thing. I'm just honestly not sure what the right thing is to do.” I hope that you will always feel comfortable reaching out to one of our advisory attorneys for more information and just say, “What's the precedent? What has the Ethics Commission opined on this situation, on these scenarios in the past?” Because the Ethics Commission has been in operation for 50 years now chances are many of the questions that you may have have already been addressed in writing, so we are happy to send those to you. But if in fact you need guidance on something very specific to your situation, you may certainly come to us for that as well. It would be our pleasure to help advise and educate you, rather than ever have to investigate someone after the fact. So, a little bit about who we are. These are the primary areas of the Ohio Ethics Law that I will be covering in this recording today. Please understand, this is a very brief summation of the entire law.

[03:16] I suppose when I'm talking to people in higher education the words CliffNotes or SparkNotes are probably taboo, but you get the idea. This really is a very brief overview. This class is not meant to replace legal advice. You certainly can reach out to that, to us for that, you can talk to the legal counsel at your university by all means, but this is just going to provide the overview with some specific some of the advisory opinions, some of the questions that we've addressed in the past, specifically to people who do serve in your role as a board of trustee member. So we'll hit these one at a time. We'll sort of do this like a table of contents in a book. So let's begin with that first one, conflicts of interest. I've always thought to myself that this phrase has a bit of an ominous overtone, doesn't it? Sort of like: [deeper voice] conflicts of interest. Very scary sounding.

[04:06] The truth is, conflicts of interest are very common in public service. It's simply indicative of the fact that those of us who serve in the public sector, whether hired, elected, appointed, full-time, part-time management, non-management, union, non-union. We're all human beings with outside lives. None of us cease to exist at the end of our workday or at the end of that board meeting. We all have these outside lives and things and people that matter to us, that could bring about a conflict of interest. It has never been illegal in Ohio to have a conflict of interest. What is illegal is if someone in public service were to act on their conflict of interest. I promise you, I will be giving you university and public college examples throughout this class just to kind of help us think like a taxpayer, like a citizen for a minute here.

[05:01] Just think about something as simple as, if you take your family out to lunch or dinner sometime this week, as a taxpayer, you have the right to know that no one in public service acted on a conflict. So, for example, if I work for a county or city health department and I inspect restaurants, I would not be allowed to conduct the inspection of the restaurant that my sister owns. You have the right as a citizen, as a taxpayer, as a patron to expect that the last time that restaurant was inspected, that it was objective, there was no outside interest. So while it's not illegal for us to have these conflicts, that something in my outside life could make an appearance in my place of public service, what the statute says is that we would have to recuse, abstain from anything that would provide a definite and direct impact, benefit, advantage, etc. on ourselves, on members of our families or people that we have business relationships with in our private outside lives our, sometimes our clients in our private lives, but, our, the companies that we serve, the nonprofits that, I serve on their board, I'm their executive director, all the different consultants that I work for, etc..

[06:15] That private, outside business life is understandable. So many of you who choose to serve on boards for public colleges and universities, of course, have your own outside life, business job, etc.. Having the conflict of interest, somebody in your private business life wanting something from your college, a co-op, a contract, a grant, etc., it's not illegal for us to have the conflict. It would be illegal to act on it. So I came up with just a few examples that I've heard over the years, whether it was here in Ohio, other states, things that we've opined on, questions we've responded to. So let's look at a couple here that do not indicate that somebody had nefarious intent, but simply indicates that people in public service don't cease to exist at the end of a workday or a board meeting. So this was one I heard at a speech I gave. This was someone who worked full time for a city as a building inspector, but also taught, at a local community college and was wondering, “Why was it a big deal that I conducted the building inspection?” Because, “Hey, I was in my city job. I wasn't acting in my college job.”

[07:26] This would be a great example of someone who has a conflict and it would never have had to have been an illegality if they had simply said, “It's fine that the city that I work for has to conduct an inspection of that building expansion, or that permit, or whatever at the college that I teach at, I just can't be involved. I can't conduct the inspection. I can't recommend, I can't advocate, or lobby behind the scenes, put in a good word.” That that kind of recusal would have to be complete and total. The next one I wanted to mention was, I do believe, this is one that I think, can come up in a way that feels somewhat innocent. Oh, that somebody just sort of “Oh, what's the big deal?” The big deal is I cannot use public time, public equipment, my public influence to get that definite and direct benefit, advantage, etc., as I said, in this situation, for someone in my family. But it could be my outside business associate, the folks that I work with in my private life, all the different business dealings I have. I cannot use my college or university contacts, influence, resources, etc. to get that advantage/benefit for people in my private outside life.

[08:39] I will tell you, this is one, this is a question that arises really in every level of public service. It doesn't mean, of course, that someone in public service, one of the employees at the wonderful institution where you serve, can never job hunt. I like to joke as a fan of, the band the Eagles, that public service is not the Hotel California. We're not saying you can never check out or leave, but this is the part of the conflict of interest statue that would say: we get it, that someone in public service, someone working for your college, may hear about XYZ job because of the job they have now. But I hope as a taxpayer and as a citizen, you would see the problem with me, if I worked for your public institution, for your college/university, that I'm the one overseeing this project, that I'm holding this contractor's feet to the fire to make sure we get what we paid for, and while I am their liaison, their contact, their overseer, their enforcer, if you will, on behalf of my college, I am simultaneously negotiating a salary with that very company.

[09:46] You can see the conflict there. It doesn't mean someone can’t ever job hunt, It means they would have to be able to do it in a way that recuses them from all activity. Now, again, as I said, a short class like this does not replace full blown legal advice. I just wanted to give you a feel for some of the real life scenarios that can come up. Someone having a conflict of interest doesn't make them a bad human being, but it does put them in a situation where they need to stop right now. Recusal has to be complete. There is no, “Hey, Ethics Commission, can I get advice on what I did last week?” It has to be before. I must stop right now. I recognize that a lot of people, especially for those of you who are in a situation where you can vote on things, it would be a very comfortable sort of place to say, “Well, I'll abstain from the vote.”

[10:33] If, in fact, someone genuinely has a conflict of interest in their years of public service, abstaining from the vote is one of the things that you would have to do if this case, this matter, proceeding, issue pending before your institution has that definite and direct impact on yourself, your finances, your business, your outside business associates, your family. That's one step. But recusal is much broader than that. If I genuinely have a conflict I also can't do any behind the scenes stuff - recommending, hallway conversations, advocating, lobbying, you know, making plans for it. I would have to recuse from every single aspect. There were a few advisory opinions that I thought I could highlight for you today. Every advisory opinion that I will reference in this recording can be found on our website. You are certainly welcome to call me if you can't find them, but all of this is available on our website.

[11:26] So let me give you a few that we reference very often in general for people in public service, but certainly for people who serve in your capacity as well. I referenced this issue already. This whole idea of using public time, public resources, public influence, client lists, uniforms, outreaches, using anything that's available to me to somehow build outside businesses, to get advantages for my clients, etc.. Anything like that. Using my email address, we saw that one already. This is one of the advisory opinions I probably referenced the most often in speeches that I give around Ohio. 96-004. There is nothing secretive or esoteric in the way these are numbered. It simply means it was the fourth advisory opinion that the Ethics Commission issued in the year 1996. This one is fairly comprehensive.

[12:22] This whole idea of: I cannot use the resources, the titles, anything available because of my public service to benefit myself, my colleagues in my private life, etc.. This can come up in a number of ways. It can be the use of physical equipment. If I were to use the state vehicle or the state laptop, or my state cell phone in some private business venture. If I were to use the authority, or kind of a threat of using my public position to get someone of my private life to do what I want, these are all things that we have to kind of have a wall between our public lives and our private lives. Certainly, I recognize one of the reasons that you were asked to serve on the board is because you may be very active in your community. You may have a wonderful business. No one is suggesting there's something untoward about that. But now that you have this public position, you cannot use it for your benefit, for advantage, or your clients in your private life, your family, your outside businesses, etc..

[13:17] One of the other ones that I think can be helpful to know, now, I know this example sounds very specific, but this, again, this whole idea of that something in my private life, right, my job in my private life could make an appearance in the university where I work or I serve or I teach. This one is a very helpful one to kind of be aware of that, while these two roles simultaneously may not be prohibited, some of the behaviors would be. For example, if I'm lobbying to get this grant for, you know, this university, because that's going to pay for my salary, that's going to keep my job available, that that I'm going to actually get a better job opportunity, that maybe I'll get other benefits. I cannot use either public position to get something for benefit for myself, even for that other employer. That I cannot be, in my state job, saying, “Hey, could you make sure they get that grant?” This is not necessarily an issue just for people with bad intentions. It's for real life people who encounter some of these situations.

[14:19] The advisory opinion here that you may want to review, was issued in, in 1989, a very helpful one if this situation should ever present itself. This next one, this was issued in the year 2007. This one is one of my most favorite advisory opinions of all time. This one was issued to a village in Ohio. It's one of my favorite advisory opinions. This was issued to the village of Athens, Ohio, a beautiful part of Ohio. If you've never been there, please go there. Or maybe if you are from Ohio University, go Bobcats. Thank you for all of your service. It is absolutely understandable that in a village of that size, that the number one employer in that village is the university. There's nothing wrong with that. That's just reality, I don’t think there’s a close second. But it does stand to reason that the village could wonder, well, what happens if, in fact, we have some folks who work for the university that serve on village council?

[15:18] What happens when something comes up before village council that impacts the university, their employer, their business associate? A perfectly legitimate question that we're thrilled that they asked because we want to be able to offer this advice. So the reason this is one of my favorite advisory opinions of all time, it does a great job of kind of bifurcating the issue of, what does it mean to have something be a definite and direct impact? I used that phrase when I first start talking about conflicts of interest, and something that can kind of be a uniform across the board impact that impacts everybody equally. So, for example, some of the things noted in that opinion, if this village council member who also works for the university, if their council is looking at something like sewer rates, water rates, village taxes, that it impacts every resident and employer equally uniformly the same exact way, they absolutely could act on that in their village role. However, for other things that sort of impact their employer, their business associate uniquely: building permits, grants, building inspections, public contracts. That's when we say, “This doesn't impact everybody in the community. This is something that only impacts my employer. I now need to recuse 100%.”

[16:36] If you ever find that someone's in a situation where they’re thinking, “Well, recusal could stall the process.” That's where you get legal counsel, reach out to us, call the legal counsel at your at your university, etc. you do not have the authority to say, “Well, recusal would be a hardship, so tell you what, go ahead and act on that matter and we’ll just all keep an eye out to make sure everything goes objectively.” No, the statute would say recusal is mandatory by criminal statute. I get, by the way, that that is such a brief overview of a fascinating part of a criminal statute. I think you could spend a whole hour just talking about conflicts of interest, but that's just to kind of wet our whistle of some of the things that can arise. We would always encourage you, with questions, certainly go to the legal counsel at the university or at your public college. You can go to your attorney general as well, obviously, but you are always welcome to reach out to the Ethics Commission so we can assist and support all of you in doing the right thing under the Ethics Law as well.

[17:35] The next area of the Ethics Law that I want to spend a few minutes on is the gift statute. 102.03(E) and (F) do not say every gift under the sun is illegal. But the other thing that the statute doesn't do is give a specific dollar amount. There is nothing in this statute that says, “Hey, as long as that gift is worth less than, you know, 10 or 20 or $50, we're okay.” If you are thinking of your financial disclosure statement right now and you're thinking, “But I know there's a dollar amout there,” please do not use that dollar amount as a cutoff for gifts. What that dollar amount is for is saying, for gifts over 75 - that's what's written on your financial disclosure form - for gifts over than that, I have to disclose the sources of those gifts, presuming I was even allowed to accept the gift in the first place.

[18:30] Before you get to disclosure, first, you have to do this test to decide, “Am I even allowed to accept the gift?” Improper and substantial are the two words that 102.03(E) give us to help determine, “Am I even allowed to take the gift?” The word improper, all that means is, who is offering me the gift? Who wants to pick up my tab at lunch? Who's saying I'll take you golfing? Who is saying I've got an extra ticket to this game? Or that Broadway show? Who sent that tin of cookies to the university? To the president's office at the holiday season? There's only four categories, and I'm not going to worry too much for all of you about the regulated community, that third bullet point, for all of you, you're probably looking at vendors, current vendors, people selling goods and services to the college or the university.

[19:15] Wannabe vendors, those that are trying to, they're submitting bids, they're advertising, they're calling your public purchasing office, saying, “Can I talk to you about my widgets?” So current vendors, wannabe vendors, and that last category, people who have a vested interest in matters before the public agency, in this case, university. Could be adjacent property owners, it could be students, etc., it could be co-op agencies, companies that do, workforce development, that maybe do internships, etc. with your university. Nobody is suggesting that your student body or the companies in your area, or that your vendors, no one's suggesting they're improper people or that they all have improper motives. But what the statute would say is that they would be improper sources of gifts that we call substantial.

[20:01] As I said, there is no specific dollar amount to identify substantial. Do not use the dollar amount, that $75 in your financial disclosure form, as your cutoff. That is far too high for determining whether or not you're even allowed to accept a gift. I grant you, there are gifts that statutorily we are not going to worry about. These trinket-y tchotchke little, the tin of cookies, the cup of coffee, a bagel, and a cup of hot tea. Promotional things, a little tin of cookies, nominal and de minimis. When the statute talks about substantial. What we could be looking at are more things - the golf outings, travel expenses, tickets to games, more expensive meals, etc.. The statute mandates that you and I, whether someone is a financial disclosure filer or not, to say, “Am I even allowed to accept the gift?” Keeping in mind those de minimis nominal little tchotchke things are fine.

[20:57] That's way lower than 75. Okay, so first start off with your head of, “What they're offering me, is it worth more than a meal at Bob Evans? Than a little tchotchke gift?” If you go much higher than that, call it substantial and say, “I cannot accept that from a vendor to the university, somebody trying to get a contract, somebody that's seeking something from the university.” Then you just say, “No.” There should be nothing to disclose on your form because you weren't allowed to accept something worth more than one of those little nominal gifts from an improper source. Where that $75 comes into play on your form is when you say to yourself, “Okay, this person is offering me a ticket to a Browns game or a, Cincinnati Reds game, or a Columbus Blue Jackets game or a Broadway show, and, yeah, that's over $75.

[21:42] Who was it that's offering it to me?” And you can honestly say that the offerer, right, the person wanting to give it to you, the company want to give it to you has absolutely no vending interest. They're not currently selling. They're not seeking to sell. They have no vested interest in anything before the university. The person giving you the gift is your best friend from your college years who’s an orthodontist in Indianapolis today. They are not an improper source, but because the gift is worth more than $75, you will disclose their name on your form. Do you see the difference there? First determine - am I even allowed to accept it? Disclosure is not just this safe harbor saying, “I can take whatever I want as long as I disclose it.” Decline anything worth more than some of those tiny little tchotchke little gifts, and you will be safe under the Ethics Law.

[22:28] Some of the advice frequently given in the ethics arena and the gift arena, for colleges and universities in Ohio, include some of these. This this issue has come up before. of, “Well, yes, I was going to take the ticket to the Hamilton musical coming back through, you know, Toledo or Columbus or whatever, Dayton, I was going to take it, but I promise you, it won't influence me, so that's okay, right?” Be aware, the gift statute, this is not the bribery statute, right? There is nothing in this statute says, “Hey, as long as it didn't influence the outcome or alter your behavior.” The statute simply says, if it was substantial and if it was from an improper source, we say “No” to that gift. If it actually does influence us, we really are talking about a bribe. But that is not the the threshold that we would look for.

[23:16] All we would say is, did this public employee, official, or board member accept the substantial gift from an improper source? This one is also a very fair question that arises. I happen to use like a copy machine for this example. There's certainly, as you know, there is no prohibition against people making donations to public universities. Goodness sakes. I'm sure many of your alumni very generously give out of the gratitude that they have for the university, giving them such an amazing start in their lives, careers, etc.. There's nothing wrong with donations. Where people can sometimes have the question is, as I said, I used a copy machine; this XYZ vendor, after the college purchased this expensive copy machine, they said we're going to throw in 50 boxes of copy paper or a free paper shredder as a thank you gift.

[24:08] The truth is, those kind of donations to the university or college are perfectly fine. The difference here is when that donation is given to the college or university, not to individual public employees or public officials. So if I am the person that they sent the paper shredder to, that's perfectly fine. As long as we keep it for university use, it does not go home with me. I don't own that gift. It was a donation to the university or college, not to me. There is a significant exception that I do think you might want to be aware of. For folks who have no supervisory authority, the folks who have no administrative authority, this can often be your faculty or someone whose only job, and I mean that in the best sense, not in the pejorative, but their only responsibility is classroom instruction - they instruct, they do not also supervise other staff, they are not in charge of a department, they're not also a dean, they're not also a coach, they don't also, you know, work in this department or that - that that is their sole responsibility, is classroom instruction.

[25:15] There is an exception for those folks in some of these gift arenas. So for example, the example you see I gave here, if in fact a company that publishes textbooks sends this non-supervisory faculty member a $200 textbook and says, “Hey, check this chemistry book out. If you use it, that's great. If not, no big deal. You can keep it.” If that faculty member wants to donate it to the college chemistry department or the science library, fine. The truth is, if they choose to keep it, we would not have a statutory prohibition against it because they are not also in a situation having any administrative authority. For everybody else, though, right? Everybody else, everybody that's not in the instruction world or anybody that instructs but also has those roles, everybody in the, you know, board, the presidents, the staff, the guidance, admissions, fiscal, everybody else.

[26:14] This is prohibited. To take expensive things, travel and expensive books or meals or jewelry or anything else from those improper sources. So it's a very narrow group of people that qualify for that exception. All right. The very last thing sort of in this arena is supplemental compensation. I won't spend a ton of time on this area of the law. It used to be more of a question that came up for universities, because there used to be the question that arose of, “Hey, we want to send a check to the public school teacher in XYZ public school in Ohio, who mentored one of our students that was in the education department.” My understanding is that has not been in practice for a number of years now, but that was a common question we had for years for people in public universities.

[26:59] Essentially supplemental compensation - no one's allowed to pay us to do the job we were already paid to do by our employer. That's the idea that part of that part of the law. If you have questions on the gift part of the Ethics Law, two things. One, you can find all these advisory opinions and many factsheets on our website. I would also note, I do have, kind of more than a fact sheet, almost like a booklet, specific for public universities and colleges in Ohio. it goes through the Ethics Law, step by step, lists advisory opinions and examples, everything I'm saying, and so much more. Feel free to locate that on our website and use it and disseminate it to your heart's content to help people understand and be equipped to comply with the Ethics Law.

[27:47] All right. Great. The next area of the Ethics Law that I want to talk about are public contracts. In a nutshell, a public contract is any time public money is spent. Well, technically the statute would say “money spent by or for the use of a public agency.” So any time your college or university spends money, it could be something major, like a huge construction project. It could be something as simple as, we have to buy, you know, new staplers for one of the offices. It could be anything like that. It could be consulting, it could be salaries, it could be grant money. Any public money is a public contract. It's completely normal. It happens every day of the week. But it is fair for us to look at some of the prohibitions that fall under this area of the law.

[28:27] You can see 2021.42(A) has four: (1), (2), (3) and (4) Let's hit these one at time relatively quickly. But I will tell you, the first two, (1) and (2) are in fact felonies of the fourth degree. This slide looks an awful lot like the conflict of interest one, right? Self, family, business associates. In the conflict of interest arena, When someone really does use their public position to get something of value. “I used my, I used my email, my university email to advertise my son's business.” The example we used earlier. Yes, that would be a misdemeanor of the first degree under the conflict of interest prohibitions. Bad idea. In this area of the Ethics Law, though, the reason it kind of goes up to a fourth-degree felony is because in this area, we would be using the authority of our public positions to secure public money for ourselves, our families, our outside business associates.

[29:25] This could be something as simple as, “I knew that my university had to replace the roof on a university building, and I was all over the place recommending and advocating for my adult son, who has a roofing company, to get that contract.” It doesn't prohibit these folks in our lives, our outside business associates, our family members, etc. from seeking those opportunities, those public contracts. What this part of the statute prohibits is us, the people in public service, from being involved at all. Formally, informally, verbally, in writing, etc.. A couple more examples here. This one was a true story. Not in Ohio, this one was another state, where, this person was actually very well liked, sort of just kind of snuck her husband's name in there to get grants and benefits and wanted to argue that this was not a violation of their statute, because it wasn't like I stole money to, you know, go to the Bahamas.

[30:24] This is public money. Her husband, had this happened in Ohio, wasn't forbidden from pursuing this program. This fellowship. What she was prohibited from doing was being involved in any way, shape or form. In Ohio, this would be a potential fourth-degree felony. Much simpler one, but equally illegal. Equally felonious. That, let's say that I do serve at your university or college, and we are going to have, a catered event for a ribbon cutting, or an honored speaker, all the different reasons that a university could have, a lovely event. And I say, “Oh, you know, the catering company or the bakery that I work for part time, in my private life, I'll be happy to negotiate the deal and secure that.” Yeah, I can't do that legally in the state of Ohio under the public contract statute.

[31:15] This is an issue that we've been bringing up more and more often in the last few years. Be aware that public grants are just as much public money, and therefore subject to the public contract restrictions as any other public money. Again, if in fact, I, I work in the private sector and I serve as a university board member, it does not mean that the company that I work for my private life, can't potentially pursue that grant opportunity with the university that I serve. It means that I cannot be involved. If I cannot recuse myself, then, no, that grant cannot be issued because a grant is just like any other money. It must happen completely, fairly, objectively, and if myself, my family or my outside business associates are seeking that public contract, I would have to be able to recuse 100%.

[32:07] The other fourth-degree felony, that I will not spend nearly as much time on is this one - 42(A)(2) is about investing public funds with the intent of benefiting myself, my family or outside business associates. We do not see nearly as many cases on this, so I'll just file that one in that FYI, it exists, but we won't go too deep into this area of the Ethics Law. 42(A)(3) - this is what we often call occupying a position of profit. This is a great example that you see here on the screen, that I actually helped to bring a public contract into existence that I then even maybe later benefit from. This, we do have information on this part of the Ethics Law on our website.

[32:47] Again, I acknowledged right at the beginning of this recording that we would never hit everything in all detail, but I want to kind of give you a feel for some of the areas of the Ethics Law that exist and all the resources that you can find on our website. You're already getting the feeling that recusal is a solution for so many issues under the Ohio Ethics Law. I have to tell you, we've been through 2921.42(A)(1), (2) and (3). What we're going to do next, 42(A)(4), is one of the areas of the Ethics Law where recusal does not solve the entire problem.

[33:23] And that's this one. In a nutshell, sort of in the vernacular. 2921.42(A)(4) essentially says to all of us in public service, by the way, everything now that we're talking about everything after the gift part of the Ethics Law, everybody at your college or university is subject to. I don't care what their job is. I don't care if they're adjunct. If they teach once a week, or I don't care if it’s the president of the university. Every single one of us that serves that college or that university is subject to everything we're talking about, ever since the gift part of the Ethics Law. Including this one.

[33:58] In a nutshell, what this part of the Ethics Law prohibits, is people in public service in any capacity - hired, elected or appointed from selling goods and services to the very public university or college we serve in any capacity. If I am a board member at your college and in my private life, I own or work for a construction company. The company that I work for, the company that I own, I should say, should not get the contract. Even if I recuse myself. If, in fairness, if it's a company that I work for in my private life, I grant you recusal is going to help protect me. As long as I stay out of it.

[34:39] If I am the owner or one of the owners of that construction company, me recusing from the discussion, the decision making, is not sufficient. I need to simply conclude that I will never be a vendor to the public entity that I serve. This is unfortunately, one that I hear about a great deal in speeches that I give around the state of Ohio. It doesn't have to be something as big as construction, even something as simple as, I work for your college or university and I have a t-shirt printing business in my private life. Even there, I would say whether I recuse myself from the discussion, the decision making isn't relevant.

[35:19] I should not have the very public entity that I serve in my client list, if you will. I don't care if it's once in a while. I don't care if it’s on an as needed basis. The statute doesn't say, well, as long as it was less than this amount of minimum dollars that had to go out for bid. It doesn't matter if it was $5. We should not be vendors to the very public entity we serve. If you need more information on this area of the Ethics Law, please look at our website. It's a very important part of the statute, and it's important for people to understand it well so they know that they have to stay back. That recusal isn't the solve, solving the issue here.

[35:59] One more thing before we leave public contracts. And that is the issue of nepotism. Certainly it is not uncommon for folks who are related to each other by blood or by marriage, both working at the same university. Certainly we understand that. Partly just because public universities and colleges are wonderful places to work. I don't blame someone for saying, “Gee, my father had a wonderful career at XYZ University. I'd like to follow in his footsteps.” That certainly can happen. Another real common scenario is that two people meet at a job and get married. Then you have spouses working there.

[36:33] I already referenced OU And there's certainly other, colleges like that, you know, Hocking College, colleges that are kind of, Terra State, that they're lovely and wonderful, but it may be a less populated area in Ohio. Not uncommon that someone would say, “Well, sure, we have relatives both working for that university or college because it's one of the best employers in the area.” That's not what's illegal. The illegal part is when someone who's already in public service doesn't recuse him or herself when a family member is, in fact, seeking a job at the university or the college. You can see the definition of family here on this slide. (Spouse/domestic partner, Sibling, Parent/step-parent, Child/step-child, Grandparent, Grandchild)

[37:13] Incidentally, it doesn't matter if your children, grandchildren, etc. live in your home. They are still considered your family and you would have to recuse from any action related to their public job hunt. The exception is extended relatives not listed on this slide like aunts, uncles, nieces, nephews, cousins and in-laws. Any of those relatives are only considered family under the Ethics Law if that relative actually lives in your home. If any of these family members want a job at your public college or university, you can't hand deliver family resumes. You cannot be character references. You cannot talk them up. You cannot talk down their competition.

[37:56] You cannot sit in on the resume review. You can't sit in on the interview. You cannot call HR and recommend them. You cannot write letters of recommendation. You can't advocate, lobby or certainly threaten anybody if they don't hire your relative. All of these actions would potentially be a fourth-degree felony under the Ethics Law. I would argue that nepotism is one of the most effective ways in government to make sure the public doesn't trust us. If they see people getting public jobs because they were well-connected and not necessarily well qualified, they won't trust anything else we do. Now, that's not to say if your loved one is well qualified, that it's okay to get involved. Either way, we must stay out of it.

[38:41] If you need backup on this area of the Ethics Law, please know I have nepotism resources on our website that provide so much and answer so many questions on these areas of the Ohio Ethics Law. Please look at those. We'd be happy to help find find them if you can’t. Okay, one last thing before I surrender you to the rest of your your pursuits of the day. Post-employment is an area of the law that you will want to be aware of one day when you're heading out the door. for some people at your university, it very well could be retirement, or they accept a different job somewhere else, or you in the board trustee world it very well could be when that day comes that you say, “This has been a great honor, but I think it's time for me to rest. I'm no longer going to, serve on the board and please don't reappoint me, you know, Mr. or Madam Governor.” etc..

[39:35] There is this one year “cooling off period,” it’s not a statutory phrase, but you get the idea, that would say, in that first year that clock starts ticking the day I, you know, leave that board or trustee group, there's this one year cooling off period that would say, I can't represent, communicate in any way - formally, informally, verbally, in writing, I can't communicate, represent on behalf of my outside clients or businesses or company in my private life, etc., before any governmental entity if we would be discussing in that hearing, briefing, meaning email, text message, phone call, whatever, if we would be discussing something that I had been part of at the university. I will tell you two things on this. Number one, this is to protect the public, what we don't want to have happen is, someone leaves that public role and within a couple of days, weeks or months, they're right away advocating with their old colleagues, their old, you know, comrades to kind of help get something of value or get an advantage, benefit, influence something for their outside business interests, etc..

[40:40] That's one year even after. The other thing I will tell you is the higher up someone is in the food chain, the more likely that you're going to say, “Yeah, I was involved in so much.” Even if you say it was only an electronic signature, the higher up you are, you were involved in so much more. That is not to put panic in anyone's minds or to dissuade people from serving in the public sector, but simply to remind all of us that the Ethics Law is designed to protect us as citizens, as taxpayers. So even in that year, if you step off the board one day, if you're not reappointed, etc., in that first year, please don't feel like, “Well, I'm no longer on the board. I can't seek help.” Yes you can. Here is our website. There is our phone number. You can call us. You can reach out to us.

[41:25] I gave you my email address. Please don't feel like you have to email me. If you would prefer to go right to one of our advisory attorneys. If you would like to go right to one of our investigators. If you would like to talk to our chief investigator attorney, our executive director. If you go to the website and look under the contacts, you will find the managers’ e-mail addresses. I gave you mine for convenience. Please don't feel it has to be me. There are people here smarter than I am anyway. So with that, I hope this has been helpful. Again, please do not replace true legal advice with this recording. This is just sort of the ABCs and Ethics Law 101, as you may say in your syllabi at the university or college.

[42:01] I would just like to conclude by saying thank you for your public service. For so many of us in public service, this is an incredible honor. I have loved my career all these many years with the Ethics Commission and the state of Ohio as a whole, but I am the first to admit, as much as I love my job, it is my job. I get paid. I get benefits. For those of you who choose to serve on boards, commissions, etc. those who choose to serve a university or public college in addition to your quote unquote real life that is very much appreciated. Thank you for what you do. thank you for encouragement for all the young people and even returning students that come through the hallowed halls of your institutions, we are the better that your institutions exist. You make Ohio a better place, and you paved many paths with good things. So on behalf of all of us at the Ethics Commission, thank you so much for all that you do. If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact us. Thank you again. Have a great rest of your day.